Wednesday, February 25, 2009

The Civil War II

(Via reader Cossack and Pam Troy's "The Increasingly Visible Pinochet Rationale.")

I'll buy into this much: Obama's obsession with Abraham Lincoln is being taken to extremes. OK, the Lincoln bible at the inauguration was a bit hokey but a nice touch. But it's getting almost as creepy as that roommate who was so obsessed with Jane Fonda's character that she even dyed her hair red and bought the same clothes she wore. And when Obama went to Ford's theater earlier this month to announce funding for renovations, that was more than courting disaster. He might as well have gone to the reddest district in Tennessee and hired an actor to play John Wilkes Booth.

But the following screed crossposted by Pat Dollard at Freeper Land dug up by Pamela Troy at the Smirking Chimp employs absurd reductionist thinking at its finest. It begins with a bewildering piece of (unlinked) news that seems to suggest that several states, starting with New Hampshire, are going to secede from the Union, leaving "the country split 71-29."

OK, whatever, Pat.

Pat then goes on to brilliantly connect the dots by saying,

Recall, if you will, Obama’s obsession to be the 21st Century Abraham Lincoln, and his ominous calls to recreate and rebuild America. Who was Lincoln? Why, he was the man who “preserved” the Union by way of implementing military force against states that had seceded.

So, since 1) the Hawaiian-born Obama who represented the same state as the Kentucky-born Abe Lincoln is 2) bringing about the same exact Socialist state that Lincoln, er, brought into being before, uh, Socialism was institutionalized then, uh, 3) we're ripe for another Civil War. Despite there being no slavery to fight over.

Yeah, right again, Patsy.

Dullard's brilliant paralleling of 1861 and 2009 America is ridiculous enough on the face of it but at least we can afford to laugh it away for the Newt Gingrich alternate history bilge that it is. What's alarming is the comments that it generated in Freeper Land. These people are convinced that Abe-ama Lincoln will take away their dadgum sovereignty and them darkies that's so vital to the south's still-thriving textile industry. Some samples:
I grew up in TX, but live in CA now. I have been waiting for something like this for a long time.

The Federal Govt must be defeated and restored to the form our founders intended.

I’m sure the Obama police are on their way to my house right now.

If we the people must defend our country against this disaster in the making when no politician will help then I cannot stand by and watch it all go to hell!

Either we fight with all we have or soon all will have nothing. Economic chaos is Hussein’s first goal and the sooner is comes the faster he intends to move to the next step to consolidate his power base.

going to be hard for zero to manage new england and the west coast with us sitting in the middle.

All Obama has to do is create a crisis by passing a very high firearms license/tax. Enough to start a few high profile Lexington Green's part two: Say in Waco or Ruby Ridge or Eldorado or the like.

As soon as people start firing on National Guard or such, well, the Army is going to do their duty to restore order under the constitutional authority of the POTUS whether they agree with him or not.

It's not as simple as just saying the Army are moral, ethical, professionals.

Those positive qualities could perhaps be used jujitsu style.

Had enough?

So, in summation, it's far likelier that our first socialist president, who's black and doesn't have to tackle slavery these days, will bring about a second civil war than it was for the grandson of a Nazi financier and traitor to bring about a fascist dictatorship to which we'd already played witness these past eight years.

As Pam Troy says, this is the increasingly visible Pinochet rationale, in which the rounding up, detention, torture and even outright execution of dissidents is always the preferred answer to rational debate and honest, committed bipartisanship. If they admit to voting for Obama or any Democrat, kill them on sight. If they're an avowed liberal, kill them on sight. The answer is extermination on a grander scale ever imagined even under the most prolific days of Pinochet's Operation Condor, starting with the murder of yet another democratically-elected leader.

Because that's what the Founding Fathers would have wanted, for us to extra-Constitutionally claim for ourselves the right to murder them the minute they start to smell like Karl Marx.

Obama's trying to keep everyone from getting their homes foreclosed on, while Bush did absolutely nothing to stop it. Obama's trying to re-establish rule of law for all of us while Bush, Cheney and Rove continue thumbing their noses at it. Obama's trying to get corporations to stop from rear-ending all of us while living the high life while Bush's SEC and Commerce Dept. did absolutely nothing to stop that from happening and even fostered such behavior.

The answer? Bring the Obama/Lincoln parallel to its logical conclusion.

Maybe some of you think you can afford to laugh this off as comic relief and make jokes such as, "We will fight them from the basements, we will fight them from the cushy hotel lobbies of CPAC conventions and we will fight them in cyberspace!"

But I, like Pam Troy, have noticed a hysterical screeching from the seedy side of the tracks ever since Election Night, coming from those lunatics who jack off to Rush's radio program in their plumbing vans and shortstroke to every word that dribbles like dysentery onto Hal Turner's blog.

They have no respect for the rule of law any more than Bush, Cheney or Rove does. They have no respect for democracy or the electoral process. If a centrist Democrat gets elected, it's an act of treason by most of the nation. What's called for is the rounding up and execution of the nearly 72,000,000 Americans who voted for Obama.

Get your shovels ready, boys, 'cuz you're looking at a lot of digging. It's either that or fire up the ovens and keep the smokestacks busy 24/7.

One thing the GOP has over the Dems is an ability to organize, present a united front and stay on message. Granted, the Cheetos demographic that makes up the, ahem, conservative blogosphere is considerably slower on the uptake than their tonier counterparts beside the Potomac but who's to say that one impeccably-timed event wouldn't organize them?

I don't see a Civil War II looming on the horizon, yet, but we could be looking at a series of Ruby Ridges and Wacos that, if bungled as badly by the FBI as the two aforementioned events, could actually bring about a national uprising with the likes of Rush and Turner waddling at the vanguard (which, for their ilk, would be moved to the back of the formation).

Because, while I don't necessarily envision another war between the states, we could be seeing an escalation of violence against peaceful, secular liberals for which Adkisson's double murder in Tennessee may be mere prologue.


At February 25, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You could be right. Hope not. Down here in South Texas I've invited more than a few of these freeper types out to the parking lot. I'm 5"10", 175 lbs, 50 years old, so I'm not very imposing. Haven't had a taker yet. Most of them are cowards.


At February 25, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm afraid for the President and his family. The 27%ers are riled up and out for blood. Unkindly, I picture cornered pigs. I think there are lots who sit around and make obnoxious comments, and a few who take it all the way to bloodshed. It only takes one...and I'm afraid JP's right in predicting more Waco-like incidents.

But maybe I'm just PMSing, and the intelligent right (and there are some) will recoil in horror at the upsurge in hatemongering and go about cleaning up their own slimy underbelly. The Sarah Palin rallies upset those ones, even John McCain seemed disconcerted. There is still a chance that the majority of Americans will decide that they're not willing to accept organized hate and the nasty thugs will become marginalized to the point of extinction.

Hey, it could happen! (Please, don't destroy my nice little fantasy)

At February 25, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Blogger Firestarter5 said...

Unfortunately, the "upsurge in hatemongering" is being fed everyday by the likes of Hannity, Limbaugh, and Beck, and while these 3 assholes would never admit to it, they know that all it would take is one person to put this current Presidency to an end. Naturally, if something did happen, they would denounce it immediately and back away from such actions, yet privately they would be happier than hell.

The last 8 years bred hate and extremism on the right, nothing they say or do would shock me now.

At February 25, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Blogger Bukko Boomeranger said...

I too fear the rise of inter-American violence. I don't think it will be on an organised Blue vs. Gray level, and I don't even think most incidents will be as massive (or attempted massive, at least) as Adkisson. These reich-wing bloggers are malcontents, but they're congenitally unable to get organised in the physical world. You get more than three of them together and they'll start fighting amongst themselves because they're such nasty, selfish, uncooperative snakes.

I think it's going to more like a brush fire of small acts violence -- burnings, beatings, shootings and suicides, as the desparation level goes up and the social restraint level goes down. It's going to be a mess.

At February 26, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Blogger Bukko Boomeranger said...

Well JP, I clicked over to Dullard's (sic intentionally) rant; read it and some of the comments. There sure are a lot of batshit insane people out there. Obama's a Marxist dedicated to the overthrow and enslavement of America, eh? And here we liberals are lamenting that he's too right-wing.

I was comparing their mindset to what people on the Left, including you (and to a certain extent, me) thought about the possibility that realPresident Cheney would impose martial law in conjunction with an attack on Iran or some false-flag terrorism incident. Are these right-wing fuckwits just the mirror image of leftist paranoia? I'd say not, because the Bush regime had an actual track record of launching wars and violating the Constitution.

But sometimes I wonder -- to the extent that these idiots looked at anything written by the Left during the Eight Years of Error, were they thinking the same thing about us as we are about them?

At February 26, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually the Civil War was fought in the main over economics...the Northern banking system versus the southern, which was fueled and financed by overt slave labor (i.e., master/slave relationships). Modernly, all Americans except those whose bank accounts end in "illion" are slaves as well...debt slaves (see, e.g.,

Since the biggest expense in manufacturing, production, etc. is labor, the struggle to suppress the cost of labor continues, while the people who contribute absolutely nothing to society, continue to reap the biggest financial rewards for their exploitation.

In sum, the Civil War resulted in a dominance of the Rockefeller debt based banking system. To view the Civil War as a "slave liberation" is to buy into the PR and overlook the fact that we remain slaves today.

The present economic crisis could very well lead to another Civil War. History tends to repeat itself because we don't learn from it. Take for instance, the removal by Phill Gramm and his party of whiners, of post-depression era protections designed to prevent banking and financial institutions from becoming intertwined and "too big to fail" -- understandably, the removal of these protections resulted in ... yep, another depression.

Perhaps this one can end this time without bloodshed (Civil War, French Revolution, etc.) but it's quite doubtful.

I fear President Obama's new New Deal will be derailed by the international banking interests that seek to eliminate the cash system and put everyone who isn't them on a steady diet of less than $1 a day lifestyle.

Watch for a catastrophic event to occur in the Middle East that will result in oil prices going through the roof. When the trucks stop rolling and civilization comes to a standstill, you will see rivers of blood in the street as millions begin to starve to death.

The elite call this process "the culling" and their goal is to reduce world human population to about 500 million. (see

In summary, we have been at this place before, all the old prophecies are actually histories...human history has remained concealed from most of us. The guardians of history are the secret society whose existence was acknowledged by President Kennedy and whose assassination followed soon after he vowed to take power back from them.

Civil War? We very well may find ourselves in another one yet. Coming to a neighborhood near you much much sooner than you might think.

At February 26, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Blogger jurassicpork said...

Last Anon: Oh, sure. You're absolutely right. It was about banks. But, as you also rightly and sagely point out, they were financed by slave labor. Ergo, the root cause for the Civil War remains, always was and always will be about slavery.

Bukko: No, we see them for what they are. They see us for what they prefer to think about us. We know they're completely insane. They only think we're insane, too.

There's no one who can convince me that I, and the rest of us, aren't on the side of the angels.

Koot: I have faith in the Secret Service and am confident they will keep the President and First Family safe. I'm concerned for the rest of us who don't have the best bodyguards on earth to protect us.

At February 26, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The whole "Civil War II" scenario is part of the illusion. You have fallen into their trap, again.

The powers that be always use the same strategy, divide and conquer. They want you to believe it is a struggle between Democrats and Republicans. Yet, both parties have been compromised, so it doesn't matter to them who is in charge, because ultimately, they hold the reigns to both political parties.

What you don't realize is the Obama administration has already been compromised. Just look at some of his people: Rahm Emanual, Larry Summers, Tom Vilsack. These guys are loyal to They Big Business, not WE THE PEOPLE .

Oh sure, Obama may throw us a bone or two, in the form of Stimulus Bills and soon Health Care, to appease us and make it appear he is one of WE THE PEOPLE. But in the end, the powers that be will still run the show, just as they do today.

So, the only difference between the Republicans and Democrats is the Democrats are better at running the county and giving out bigger bones.

Kevin Schmidt

At February 26, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe it's time that the anti-gun lefties reconsider their position. We just had an 8-year taste of the kind of government these self-serving Fascist pigs shove down our throats. The Founding Fathers gave us the Second Amendment because they realized that all the other protections they included in the Constitution would only be worth as much as a biased, corrupt Supreme Court (we've seen that too) declared them to be. The Second Amendment is the only one that has any teeth in it. When some jack-booted Reich wing thug kicks my door down because I've got an Obama sign in my front yard I'm going to have a little surprise ready for him thanks to Mr. Winchester.

At February 26, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great post, WBTP-ville!

And I love the imagery: Pottersville, a town of (either) loan-sharks, bullies & crooked cops, or drunks & victims.
(Don't forget that at the time it came out "It's A Wonderful Life" was NOT a popular movie; its depressing tone outweighing its populist message, at least the way its opening-run viewers saw it.)
Now it is LONG past due that Mr.Obama get his head out of the clouds, and come back down to earth a bit. There is NO WAY he will EVER get the core of the "25%", the twenty-five-percenters, to love him.
(God himself had to choose between Cain and Abel, between Isac and Ishmael. )
In concrete terms, President O. might want to recall just WHY President Lincoln was DRIVEN to nominate and hire A TEAM OF RIVALS -one of whom was trying to unseat him from the presidency right up to the fall of 1864.

And the reason Lincoln was DRIVEN, to hire his OWN MOST POWERFUL OPPONENENTS, was because the Southern Autocrat elite PLANTATION-OWNING _SLAVEOWNERS_ were PERFECTLY WILLING to KILL THOUSANDS of Union soldiers.... day after day, for years on end - in order to establish a SLAVERY-BASED EMPIRE.
Author Michael Lind explains that the Confederate Empire, "valiant losers" propaganda to the contrary, was NOT a DEFENSIVE empire, but was an AGRESSIVE EMPIRE based on the CONQUEST, DESTRUCTION, and ENSLAVEMENT of ALL rival tribes, clans, races, and nations around them.... INCLUDING the US-of-A!
Had the Congress sued for Peace in 1864 (and they would have, had Grant and Sherman not been victorious that year, leading to McClellans peace-platform Dem. election) - the newly established Confederacy would IMMEDIATELY have started SEIZING NEW MEXICO, ARIZONA, Nevada... and even California! And then Mexico & Cuba, and on South through to Panama & beyond.
THAT agenda - today's direct, lineal predecessor of the Right-Wing obstructionists and low-wages, no civil rights Wingos - are President Obama's most dangerous adversaries, no matter how deluded he believes he will be able to woo them over.
I'm reminded of the story of an African slave-port King whose two sons went to a slave ship to discuss terms of the latest handover of slaves. When the slavers captured the two princes and tossed them below, the King was faced with a choice: declare war on the canon-armed slave ship, or take his payment and forget about his sons. He chose the later.

At February 27, 2009 at 1:42 AM, Blogger super390 said...

The ol' Civil War biz.

I started writing short stories about a 2nd American Civil War in 1983, feeling that Reagan had begun the polarization that would led to a Pinochet/Franco style coup one day. Yes, it was against a black president.

So for 25 years I've watched US politics, but also the evolution of warfare (though it looks to most to be devolution). My conclusions:

The Right has finally screwed up badly enough that it can't create enough neo-Confederate suckers before America's racial demographics turn against them permanently. It now must either be a minority party or it must plot secession. So I'm now less worried about a right-wing coup that tries to seize the entire country.

However, the civil war business is booming around the world. Iraq is the new shape of internal strife. What US sanctions did to de-modernize Iraq before the invasion, is now happening to the whole world in this Great Depression. This makes possible the dissolution of national institutions and the atomization of community (just what the corporations want). If you've been reading articles about how the Sadrists organized Sadr City, or how militias wormed their way into every new institution, you're seeing the future of civil war.

Yes, the right-wingers may get the 2nd civil war they desire, but it will be fought by very young boys and girls lacking in formal education, using cheap high-tech weapons like Iraq's cell-phone activated bombs. Asian demand will keep 4th-world electronics factories busy, and someone will use surplus circuits to create all manner of portable mayhem. If these kids have a network-oriented view of control systems, they will take to assassination as logical and cheap: go after the CEOs and bankers and other key guys.

The neo-Confederates were exposed at the Palin rallies as old and fat. They are opening up a Pandora's box if they think they can militarize their kids "Jesus Camp" style and crush the fast-growing black-Hispanic fusion youth culture in the US. Everyone will lose, and then starve.

At February 27, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Blogger kelley b. said...

So if you really wanted an excuse to impose martial law, you'd set brother against brother, by inciting the least rational against the rest.

It's what happened to the South in the Civil War. It benefited the Southern whites not one bit to lay down their lives so their aristocrats could continue to exploit their slaves.

Of course, they didn't see it that way. That's what mind control is all about. That's what we're up against.

Civil War II? No, another Company war, along the lines of what we've served up in Latin America. The real makeup of the sides, and who profits won't look anything like what's presented by the main$tream.

The blood will be real enough.

At February 28, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Blogger Da' Militant One said...

Well, freepers and anybody else threatening Obama should keep in mind that it's 2009 and not 1968. Zippos, bricks, and bottles have been replaced by Tech-9, uzis and AK-47s, and the young brothers in the hood practice using them on each other daily. Most if not all of these young brothers are down with Obama, and if I were the "freepers," I'd be praying for Obama's safety because there's a reason why most white folks and many black folks cross the street when a group young black men approach. They don't know if any harm will come to them, but as for the young brothers, fairly or unfairly their reputations precede them. I doubt that any of the writers whose posts you printed would ever think about going to the hood and expressing themselves because all their relatives would probably end up "slow singing and flower bringing." (Translation: A young brother would probably "pop a cap" in his ass. Further translation: Make the freeper die of lead poisoning.)To make it plain: Shoot him. That's the reality of street life in urban America. So. I don't worry about the freepers. It's the Limbaughs and Hannitys, who I have a problem with. Peace.

At February 28, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Blogger jurassicpork said...

Dear God, if heaven forbid anything ever happened to the president, what we saw in 1968 after Dr. King's death would be nothing in comparison. 72 million of us voted for Obama. That alone could start a second civil war.

At July 18, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Funny stuff. I love the stereo typing of right wingers. It's funny how people like you who are so tolerant are so intolerant when it comes to a differing political view point.

I voted for Bush but I am no fan of Bush. Most Conservatives I talk too do not like Bush, either. He was not a Conservative and he certainly didn't represent the principles of Conservative thought that he ran on. 4.5 trillion dollars in debt later and a military that is way over extended fighting for a bunch of people that won't fight for themselves while The United States rushes towards bankruptcy at mach 5 is not my idea of a good presidency.

I think Obama is worse, though. He's continuing our military adventures--something we cannot afford--in Afghanistan without any real support from our allies; he's using the recession to consolidate power for The Democrats and the left; and I think his domestic policies are downright dangerous and a threat to prosperity and economic recovery.

Elections have consequences, I understand that, even if everything he is doing makes me angry and sick.

I don't want a Civil War but the political discourse in this country has reached a critical level and is in danger of of meltdown.

The economy has been the glue that has held these competing ideologies in check. Take away the paycheck and the goodies that comes with American life-I Pods, nice cars, big house, and you are going to have angry people blaming others on the other side of the fence.

The election of Obama cost me a twenty year friendship with a friend I looked at as a brother. He was a liberal; I was a Conservative. If we couldn't put our political differences aside, as childhood friends, what does that say for the rest of the country?

I truly believe that The Republic The Founders left is dead. What we now have is a mobocracy where 51 percent will impose its will on the 49 percent. This can only lead to chaos.

It's been hard but I have come to conclusion that secession may be the only way out of this mess. However, if the blue states aren't willing to let us leave in peace I tell you right now we will fight. There is a lot of anger out there and many people on the right are preparing for economic disaster; many are preparing for an eventual Civil War. I hope to God that it doesn't come to that; I don't want to live in a North American Lebanon.

However, I do not want to live in a socialist, liberal utopia either and if say, Texas, were to secede I would pick up a rifle (I don't own guns)and join them.

If Obama's economic policies are a success, war will be averted. Even the right can be pacified when they're working, eating, and have their toys. If his policies fail and the economy gets worse or we enter into a depression (which I think is going to happen)I think The United States as we know it will cease to exist and Civil War will ensue.

Hopefully, the discourse will change at some point........but I'm not as audacious as our Apologist in Thief, wink, wink.

At August 3, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Anonymous Big Bear said...

It is not so much a "Red State/Blue State" thing, since the divide transcends state borders. It's more rural vs. urban.

Check out this website:
Now, Dave Leip swaps red and blue but you get the idea. He breaks it down county by county if you click on a state.

Missouri's about as evenly split as a state can get, but check it out county to county.

If something (god forbid) does happen to Obama, it's a sure bet the cities would burn. But in much of the Midwest, or say Montana, things would remain relatively calm, although some locals might blow key bridges.

The coming bankruptcy of the US government is going to leave a lot of people disillusioned. Already, tax revenues have fallen by levels not seen since 1932. Some of it is the recession, some of it is citizens fed up by government lies, fraud and waste, who are wisely cutting off a government which no longer represents them.

Obama is alienating the productive class. Reagan pulled us out of the '80s recession by catering to them. The government cannot fund its current obligations and is taking on more more more. Now there are rumblings of a middle class tax hike. This will only fuel the tax revolt.

The last thing we need is another Tim McVeigh in the Age of Anthrax.

At December 25, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

2010 will be a difficult year for Americans, but it will not bring about the New American Civil War. However, if things continue to get worse economically over the next 10 years, then anything is possible.

At January 11, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Anonymous Carla D said...

What comments do you have now in 2010? Here in Las Vegas senior citizen shoot and killed one Federal security guard at the courthouse, wounding another.
He was mad because his SS check was going to be cut.
Hunger, desperation, no morals, and guns, a bad mix.
But I wouldn't worry. Most liberals believe in the right to bear arms and own guns...not.

At October 12, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just fyi, it was _Bridget_ Fonda, not Jane, whose life was highjacked by her cinema roommate (Jennifer Jason Leigh).


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